“I can’t add value to people until I put something out there” – MATTHEW LEE BURGESS
#016 – In this episode, Matthew and I discuss what has helped Matt get over his fears of content creation despite being an introvert. We talk about why podcasting is the route Matt took and what does putting his story out in the world mean to Matt.
Enjoy the episode!
Have a question/comment or just want to chat? DM me on instagram @mahrukh.m.imtiaz or Email me at [email protected]
Show some love and FOLLOW!
Highlights from this episode:
[1:50] Mahrukh: What helped you get to the stage of being able to feel the fears and I will do it anyway
[5:00] Why podcasting?
[12:05] Challenges with being a food blogger/podcaster
[16:14] What does putting your story out of the world mean to you?
Connect with Matthew:
A little bit about Matt:
Matt Burgess, “Chef Matt” is a former baker, cook, and pastry chef has his sights set on one clear mission, helping aspiring bakers and pastry chefs improve their skills without taking on a lifetime of debt. With backgrounds in cooking, pastry, design, and customer service he works in each moment to distill his experience as pastry chef into digestible pieces of information.
Resources mentioned:
Tools of Titans
Pat Flynn
Amy Porterfield
Transcription:
Matthew Lee Burgess
I have something, it cost me a lot both in money, sweat, tears, hard nights when I came out of that, and I was, had to work a few other jobs to pay those bills and get that taken care of. That’s not easy. And there’s a lot of stress in this time. So you know, there is that aspect of sort of persevering over a challenge you had, but just the personal growth, getting it out there and really having this opportunity to help people and see how what I put out there impact.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
You are listening to the Spicy Chai podcast. I’m your host, Mahrukh Imtiaz. And I’m on a journey to create inspiring, helpful and meaningful content. This podcast is not going to showcase high-profile individuals spouting Hollywood advice like find your passion or hustle harder. Instead, my mission is to bring you the voices of people who are just a bit ahead of you. People you can relate to, and the people who will inspire you to put your own voice out there.
So grab your cup of Spicy Chai, and let’s get this show started.
Welcome to Episode 16. We’re currently talking to Matt so if you want to hear a bit more about Matt and our interview earlier, please go to episode number 15. But if not, I appreciate you anyway.
And here goes part two, Episode 16. And I love the way that you mentioned how you got passes by reframing. Every time a fear comes up, you reframe it to Well, I can’t add value until I put something out there, you know, be a good value by value, there’s gonna be zero value until something is out there. Now, even getting to that reframing, would you say the most that happened? Mostly? Because you were you had the right voices in your head like the right influencers that you were listening to? Or was it like, certain mentors? Like what was the combination? What helped you get to the stage where you’re like, you know, what, I have the fears, I can feel the fears, and I will do it anyway.
Matthew Lee Burgess
I mean, that’s a really good question. Yeah. You know, I have had these voices in my ears, yes, all the time. And even from just seeing people do great work. So Roman Mars, and seeing how he stood up 99% invisible and then radio topia, seeing how his case your way, set up sound, Song exploder. And a lot of the success that he came, came from that even he has that series on Netflix now. And he’s talking to some major names in music and having meaningful conversations about how they pull songs together. You know, when you see people take risks pursuing their passion. And I think that’s probably in that when I step back, and I look at how passionate I was about patriot, and I still am, I still love it. It is it is it holds that sort of duality in my life where it is just like this painfully hard thing to do. I’m skilled in it, but it’s very hard to do. But I love doing it. So in some ways, it’s self inflicted torture, and sometimes some ways is a hobby,
Mahrukh Imtiaz
You know, I can totally relate. Yes, yes, yeah. But
Matthew Lee Burgess
When you see someone with that level of passion for what they do, and you see them driving toward it, you look at yourself and say, Well, why can’t I do that? And then you and the answer to that is, well, you can just just do it. Right? Yeah, and not a style of of just do it. But like, you know, just just do it, get in there, make it happen, do something to push toward that.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
And I think that’s the important piece, do something to push towards it. So many times we compare our first stage someone’s like, 45th stage, you know, and and that’s you. That’s not a fair comparison. It’s as long as you start making those steps. And now if we’re talking about influencers and people that were in your head that kind of want to ask you, when you when you wanted your voice out there, why was podcasting the route you took? Was there were there other platforms you considered? Or did podcasting make sense for you industry? Like, could you talk a bit about that?
Matthew Lee Burgess
I chose podcasting for a few reasons. And it’s something that came through my head when a little bit earlier was the you know, I’m getting past these barriers and my my world of vulnerability, right, right. There are no videos of me out there. There are a handful on maybe my portfolio site, but they are behind I
Mahrukh Imtiaz
I know that because I google search to before our conversation so I can I can attest to that. Yes. Yeah, no,
Matthew Lee Burgess
I have I have one video I think that’s relatively well accessible. But it’s, it’s all of bread and in bread dough, and as you may see my hands and that’s it. Yeah, and so I but I don’t want to detract from the importance of podcasting to me. It’s One of the primary things i ingest are podcasts. And it’s just something I enjoy listening to. And I think it’s partly that when you listen to podcasts, especially something like this, or something like Tim Ferriss show, or even, you know, radio lab where it’s high production 99% invisible, or they have this really nice level of production storytelling
Mahrukh Imtiaz
Yeah, it’s almost like watching a movie, but just listening. Yeah, yes, yeah,
Matthew Lee Burgess
That really sparks the imagination. When you’re, when you’re watching a movie, it’s sensory overload. When you’re triggered video, it’s like everything is handed to you. And there’s no room for you to make sense of it. You’re just taking what’s happening. And I know that’s, that’s a bit black and white. That’s it, there’s a lot more gray in there that I’m expressing, right. And I think that’s what I like about podcasting, Matt and I can do occupy two separate parts of my mind. And so I can listen to these rich stories. And then, in addition to that, one of the important things to me was to provide a vehicle for someone who is aspiring to move into this field, to find room to ingest this information. So some of it was fear, being on video, I’m not gonna lie. And some of it was, well, you know, what if, you know, if I go back to my early cheffing days, I’m riding a bus to the city and then walking, and I got my gear on me. And then I got to get to the hotel, and I got to switch into my, my, my chef, gear, and you know, Chef pans on my hat and all the code and get into the kitchen, and I couldn’t I couldn’t watch a video and have all that happen, you know, it would make sense to have someone in my ear, describing something to me. And it is a challenge, because cooking is a very, it’s a very sensory dependent activity. So I think videos are in the future. But it seems like the podcast was the way to go. I mean, technically, my engagement to the world as this entity baked like a chef, as Jeff Mac is started in on Facebook, where I’m in the chef communities. And if I have value to add, someone says, What do you think of this? Or how do you get past this? I’ll provide my input. Yeah, that’s a great way to say Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it’s you find people right in the moment when they have a problem. And so that’s technically where it started. But for all the reasons I just mentioned, podcasting was the way to go.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
And for those who are, let’s say, there are probably chefs out there who also want to get their voices out there in some way or the other want to tell their story. What kind of resources would you recommend to them? Well, I
Matthew Lee Burgess
I mean, I would go back to that, that original set of voices that are out there, I mean, it depends on which way you want to go. If you that you want to put a course out, I wouldn’t send you straight to Amy Porterfield. Because not only does she have this very structured way of doing things, but she’s so super positive, and, and supportive. And it feels like your best buddy is there talking to you, trying to encourage you and push you towards your goals. Right? Right. If it were a podcast, I’d send people straight to Pat Flynn. But here’s the thing if someone said to me, I want to do something called chef stories, where I, I get I get stories from people and then I make them compelling. I’d say well go listen to nine pi, go listen to radio lab, go listen to some of these other story based go listen to snap judgment, or is it the the owl, right, where they’re actually doing just straight up storytelling, right, and see how they’re doing and see how they’re engaging in that way. If they want to do something instructional, I might point them in a different way. There’s actually another Baker out there. I cannot place her name right now. But she does something that’s a little more rigid than than what I’m doing. I’m trying to throw loose concepts out there as guidance. And she was she approached it from the perspective of you know, you want to make a French buttercream. Here’s how you make a French butter cream, and she would just go through it in a podcast. But you may you may find someone who is doing something that’s very straightforward and instructional. Well, you know, if you wanted to interview people, I would send you to someone who does great interviews. Tim Ferriss, Tim Ferriss says, great interviews, to think of one more, I’m going to do a little bit of aside here. I lost my podcast app a little while ago. Brian Lehrer even though it’s all politics, I think he does an interesting job of interviewing people. But there was one more Oh, Malcolm Gladwell does a great
Mahrukh Imtiaz
Great job. And yeah, he’s a great storyteller as well. I love his books. And, and that’s, that’s the interesting part. What I really, really like about what you said there is it’s important to start somewhere where you you’re comfortable with what I got, like you were ingesting podcasts yourself this is this was the main means that you would get information. You didn’t want to put your video out there. And honestly, you don’t have to really when you’re starting out, like you know. So I like that you said, start off doing what you’re already doing and whatever you’re comfortable with, and then experiment with that. And then the second thing that I really liked, you said there is that once you’ve kind of figured out, okay, this is where I’m gonna start, then go find people who are doing really well, and try to see what they’re doing well, like if it’s podcasting, you mentioned Pat Flynn courses. Amy Porterfield, like you know, if you can just kind of watch people how they’re doing it kind of apply. And I want to say the third thing that I really liked, what you said is, there might be people who are doing very, very similar things to you, but everyone has their own style. And everyone has their own story. And that’s what some people might listen, my like, listen to Chef Matt, who’s a bit more like, out like talking about different concepts versus some people might like more structural design and more like, hey, I need I need the exact recipe right now, because I’m cooking this right now. But I think it’s important to understand that it you have to start now and perfect later, do stuff that’s important, or more like fun for you. And not something that’s going to make sure that you won’t do it. Like if you had started video, I don’t think you would have put so many episodes out there. No, absolutely. Because you knew I think it’s so important to understand that. So I I’m curious to hear because I think it’s important well as your podcasting about, you know, bakery and you have some experience with that. What would you say is one of those one common myth about being a food podcaster that you want to debunk?
Matthew Lee Burgess
Food? podcaster? Yeah, I wish I could say in the moment, I don’t know, any myths about food, podcasters, or Blogger, or any of that, right. The thing that I did notice when I do a lot of my research is that a lot of food bloggers who are putting their face out there. They’re they’re pushing from the perspective of a home cook, wanting to learn how to bake something new. Right, or learning how to be better Baker. And I think it’s great, because it means that and I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but in the past 20 years, random food has gotten better, like you go to someone’s house in the crib.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
I mean, I can I wasn’t a chef, and now I can cook decent food. So yeah,
Matthew Lee Burgess
Yeah. But I mean, from a myth perspective, I think some of the misconceptions, some of the things that I thought I would run into, and I’m still afraid of running into is that I would constantly have food around. One of the reasons I’m happy in the moment that I’m not. Well, let me pass on that. One of my concerns about being a pastry pastry chef, and more specifically doing this podcast or making videos, is it ultimately I need to make the things that I’m talking about. And that means I have a lot of sugar around the house that needs to be consumed. So and especially in this day and age, you said it 2020 pandemic, it’s hard to give people food, it’s hard. It’s hard to say like, oh, I baked this cake here. They might say, Oh, COVID cake. I don’t want that. That’s, that’s a super spreader right there. So there’s a bit of a challenge there. Because ultimately, one of the risks you have as a pastry chef, and you’ll see this, if you’ve ever worked in a pastry kitchen, that, especially if you have a superior chef, they’re going to taste everything. Right, when they taste things. They taste it in, you know, the size of your pinky fingernail. Like it’s the tiniest thing is this butter cream, right? It’s it’s a 32nd of a teaspoon. It’s just the tiniest amount. Right, right. But you’re surrounded by all of the stuff that’s so consumed with sugar unless you’re baking red all the time, but even then, in that, you know, sugar is addictive. And, and there’s a reason for that. And in large quantities, you’ll become very unhealthy very quickly. Yeah.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
You know, it’s very interesting. I never thought of that. But now that you bring that up, that makes a lot of sense. That could definitely be like a fear. And I think the one way to get get past this is to like maybe podcast about that stuff and not start video right away. You know, you don’t have to record it. I mean, there’s there’s ways right? So know that. That makes a lot of sense. I’ve honestly really enjoyed this conversation. And I think for me, the biggest thing has been changing and I’ve written it down actually, the question shouldn’t be isn’t it perfect? It should the question should be is it good enough and just fighting your perfectionist self? Finding those fears doing it anyway and then starting now and knowing that you can always make it better later? Yes, sorry. We were saying something. Yes. Oh,
Matthew Lee Burgess
No, no, I just that. And that. And that goes for anybody. I mean, you said earlier, what about people wanting to start a podcast about food? I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s everything you could be you could want to start a podcast about kitchen towels like it’s great. Yeah,
Mahrukh Imtiaz
Yeah, totally agree. And so where can the listeners connect with you, Matt?
Matthew Lee Burgess
So I’m just getting started in a few areas. But you know, you can connect with me on Twitter and Facebook at we bake like chefs. I’m on Instagram that make like a chef, you can go to make like a chef.com. And that’s where you can pick up the podcast, and I shouldn’t be in every podcasting platform that’s relatively common. I know. I’m in Apple, podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, it’s big like a chef, it’s relatively easy to recognize. So it’s big, like a chef, big orange square icon with a rubber spatula in it. And yeah, stands out pretty well.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I love that. And one final question for you. What does putting your story out there to the world mean for you?
Matthew Lee Burgess
It means a lot of things. I mean, a lot of this conversation was about personal growth, whether whether we stayed it or not. It’s about personal.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
And that’s the beauty of it. Right? Yeah.
Matthew Lee Burgess
So for me personally, it’s about those two things, those two core things that I mentioned one, now personal growth, and the others helping people, I have something, it cost me a lot, both in money, sweat, tears, hard nights, you know, when I came out of that, and I was, had to work a few other jobs to pay those bills and get that taken care of. That’s not easy. And there’s a lot of stress in this time. So you know, there is that aspect of sort of persevering over a challenge you had, but just that personal growth, getting it out there and really having this opportunity to help people and see how what I put out there impacts the people that benefit from it. And that’s the thing I try to encourage as much as I can, that I am here to listen and talk and really explore the needs of people. In my particular audience, right, I’m looking for people who maybe want to bake or be a pastry chef or cook professionally. And they’re looking to grow their skills, they could be in their first baking job, and they’re in, you know, just a bread Baker kind of bread Baker on a street corner. And they it’s them in the manager, and it’s his business or her business. And you know, how can we get your skills up quickly? How can we get you past some of those hurdles, because food, it’s not like Lego blocks and breaking baking bread. There’s a lot of sensory input where you have to recognize the characteristics of the dough as you’re working through it, to know that it’s ready for the next step. And it’s its smell, its sound, its sight, it’s everything. So really just, it’s my opportunity to help push people through some of those challenges as quickly as possible.
Mahrukh Imtiaz
I love that. I love that. And I can really see the passion for cooking when you talk about it. And I honestly also feel that you really want to do this to just be of service to others I firsthand experience that like you’ve helped me so much so far. So I’d want to thank you for bringing that energy I can feel that energy.
So for those listening, they might They might even sense it. It really believed that and it’s been great having you over the show today. I everyone listening to this go on bake like a chef. If you want to learn more about learning how to bake or honestly, as Matt said, so much of this is personal growth. If you want to learn learn a bit about that go head on to his site to his podcast.
I had a great conversation today. And if anything, Matt or I said today that inspired you. Please feel free to share this podcast with your friends and family. And that’s all perfect. Thank you so much everyone and we will see you next week.
Remember you got this beautiful hey you thanks for listening to Spicy Chai I really appreciate it. And to make sure you never miss an episode subscribe to the podcast, the obvious and if you want to learn more, head over to mahrukhimtiaz.com and until next time my friend hit the record button or you know the publish lots of love from your favorite. You got this beautiful!
